pabloescaban
VIP Member
The uk will be leaving in about six weeks so Scotland would have to ask to rejoin, this is assuming they could get independence from UK first
Election 2019
- Thread starter pabloescaban
- Start date
celticfc
TK Veteran
independence 1st !!!
euro has already said they would be sympathetic and help all they could
pabloescaban
VIP Member
It would take years to organise an independence referendum again.
Maybe after they been out of EU for a few years they won't want to rejoin.
This is assuming there will be an EU to join, I've a feeling that after UK leaves there will be a string of others following, Netherlands have expressed an interest in leaving
Maybe after they been out of EU for a few years they won't want to rejoin.
This is assuming there will be an EU to join, I've a feeling that after UK leaves there will be a string of others following, Netherlands have expressed an interest in leaving
celticfc
TK Veteran
i agree i think the EU is defragmenting and in trouble i dont know if i would want to stay, but we have the right to choose
Without wishing to get into or embroiled in a political debate about the relative merits of Scottish independence as such, I do however have a question about the current landscape in Scotland and the UK as a whole. My question is simply this:-
How come that less than 4% of the overall population of the UK (ie Scotland) get to have about 9% of the available UK parliamentary seats ?
Seriously, I'd like to know the answer if anyone knows why that is.
superdark024
TK Veteran
i think we should all stick together but just get out of europe.
celticfc
TK Veteran
the voting system in the UK
UKIP got 13 per cent of the vote overall 2015, putting them in third place behind Labour, the UK's First-past-the-post voting system meant that the party could only secure one seat.
Yeah - - I totally get that, and whilst your example is I am sure correct, it is surely a product of the actual process of people voting, rather than my question which was more to do with the way that constituencies are made or allocated relative to the overall population who are able to or are registered to vote.
pabloescaban
VIP Member
Constituencies are decided by the boundaries commission. , this, by law, is reviewed every five years.
Some constituencies are massive in land area but sparsely populated while densely populated areas are split into smaller constituencies
Boundary commissions (United Kingdom) - Wikipedia
Many thanks for that.
Don't know about you, but it looks to me like there are some inconsistencies with the current implementation of it particularly where Scotland is concerned.
(Maybe those responsible went to the Diane Abbott school of arithmetic)
I believe it is done on population
There is a chart on this page (scroll down to third chart) Three charts that show that Scotland should stop whining
It is from 2015, but you get the idea
Thanks for that, and yes I do indeed get the idea, and it is certainly indicative of the sort of thing I was asking. I can imagine that since that article was published that the other circumstances that are also discussed in that article are skewed in further favour of Scotland at the expense of other areas of the UK.
can you imagine how most people in scotland feel when they get tory governments forced on them when the country has never voted for the tories ?.
the UK is supposed to be a union of equals berween the four countries..its not for anybody else to decide who governs who,but i cant see northern ireland or scotland being part of the UK in the next 10 years ..simple demographics tell you that the nationalist comunity will be larger in NI than the unionist comunity in the future..also in scotland a recent poll has revealed that 70% of people under 35 are certain to vote for independence...i think in the long term it would benefit us all on this island if we all became independant of each other but kept a close bond......ps the english can do what they want with the welsh
I promise you that I can indeed take that step of imagination quite easily courtesy of my own personal heritage.can you imagine how most people in scotland feel when they get tory governments forced on them when the country has never voted for the tories ?.
the UK is supposed to be a union of equals berween the four countries..its not for anybody else to decide who governs who,but i cant see northern ireland or scotland being part of the UK in the next 10 years ..simple demographics tell you that the nationalist comunity will be larger in NI than the unionist comunity in the future..also in scotland a recent poll has revealed that 70% of people under 35 are certain to vote for independence...i think in the long term it would benefit us all on this island if we all became independant of each other but kept a close bond......ps the english can do what they want with the welsh
However, I do also like to think of myself as both a democrat and practical.
Both the practical person and the democrat in me would argue that the simple fact of life is:-
(just my personal humble opinions given in the spirit of fellowship and discussion here)
The UK is one whole irrespective of how individuals might identify with their local or historical heritage. (fact of history whether we like it or not)
The UK is a democracy. (another fact of history)
A key function of democracy (and in pretty much all aspects of modern life) is the necessity of acceptance of a properly convened event giving a result. (fact if a democracy is to function and not fall to the control and benefit of a parties with a self-serving interest).
When a democracy votes for something like it did in for example in the Brext referendum, then that result should therefore be both respected and fully implemented as soon as possible and practical, and not frustrated or diluted in any way by anyone or any body or any party with any agenda. (as a general personal observation, this notion of consent does seem to be lacking in many people these days it seems to me).
Turning to Scotland in recent years more particularly:
Sure, Tories are not likely to do well there overall
When the previous independence referendum was held the result was to 'No' to the question "Should Scotland Be An Independent Country" the result was clear. Furthermore, it was a condition of that referendum taking place that all parties agreed to accept the result and be done with it. As far as I can see, only the SNP (who were party to that same agreement to accept the result) have chosen not to do so.
Scotland as a nation state is not able to function at it's current levels of relative prosperity without significant subsidy (as illustrated and discussed earlier in this thread).
Turning to representation in Westminster:
The proportion of seats available to the Scottish electorate is disproportionately high when considering the population of Scotland and the UK as a whole. (as previously discussed earlier in this thread).
MP's representing Scottish constituencies vote on legislation that uniquely effects England, N,Ireland and Wales, whereas MP's representing constituencies in England, N,Ireland and Wales typically do not vote on matters exclusively relating to Scotland.
For many years now SNP MP's in Westminster have one publicly stated agenda and one only, and that is to harass, inconvenience and vote against any government in the Westminster parliament unconditionally and in any way that they can. (you may be surprised to learn that this pi$$e$-off allot of people in England, N,Ireland and Wales, and IMHO does the Scottish cause no favours whatsoever).
The SNP's recent agreement to support the motion for the recent general election was primarily motivated by a desire that it would suit them better to have it done before the forthcoming court case involving Alex Salmond, as the prevailing feeling is that irrespective of the facts that may or may not come to light or the subsequent findings/judgement that the SNP's political capital will be inevitably damaged for some time and will require time to be re-built with the Scottish electorate.
Some recent electoral facts and figures:
In the Scottish independence referendum, just over 2 million voted "No" to the question (as given above).
In this week's general election, the SNP received just over 1.2million votes in total, securing them 48 seats. They increased their share of the vote from the previous election by 0.8%. This represented 3.9% of the votes cast. (again, you might be surprised to learn that England, N.Ireland and Wales find that 2 million people voting for a specific question a reasonably compelling answer, particularly in the light of only almost half that same voting populous voted for the SNP most recently in what is the SNP's highest ever polled votes (between you and me, best forget about the previous elections etc etc as they will only serve to make the figures look even worse)).
Whether we like it or not, the notion that the individual countries meet together as equals as you suggest or imply above is I think sadly flawed on a number of levels, not least because when votes have been held in past the romantic notions of genuine independence are not supported by very significant tranches of the voting population, and to use the headline of a gain of 14 seats to a total of 48 seats on only a 0.8% increase in the share of the vote is to rather guild the lilly at the very least.
I'm sure that I could dredge-up some more about all this, but I have probably gone-on enough
pabloescaban
VIP Member
There's no probably about it
As stated earlier, the uk (and Scotland) will be out in 6 weeks and it will be probably years down the line before a possibility arises for them to rejoin.
By that time minds will have changed
steptoe
VIP Member
Most certainly,
I'm working there atm, and the farmers are protesting on an almost weekly basis.
basejumper
TK Veteran
The Labour party is always going to stick up for the small man worldwide so is pro the Palestinian plight, which according to the pro Jewish media makes them anti Semitic. But 8% of all car accidents are caused by drunk drivers - therefore 92% of all car accidents are caused by sober drivers.
It doesn't follow if you support one side you must hate the other.
But then six Jewish companies control 96% of the worlds media according to this post:
six-jewish-companies-control-96-of-the-worlds-media.
The victors in war get to write the history books and it is the Jewish media that write the "facts"about the Labour party.
It doesn't follow if you support one side you must hate the other.
But then six Jewish companies control 96% of the worlds media according to this post:
six-jewish-companies-control-96-of-the-worlds-media.
The victors in war get to write the history books and it is the Jewish media that write the "facts"about the Labour party.
we have to remember the tory vote share only increased by 1%, it was higher in the North of England means it must have dropped in other area's, including scotland, but that 1% increase would not have given them the majority they acheived. They got the majority because the labour vote share dropped badly because labour voters did not believe the pipedreams that labour had in their manifesto which, as in 2017 election, appeared to me aimed at the younger voters, ie scrapping student loans, giving free broadband etc and non position on Brexit.
As for the Scottish independance, 55% of scots did NOT vote for the SNP, instead voted for parties that didn't support another referendum, if they do get another referendum, which I can't see in this parliament, and win it, based on their current deficit they won't be allowed into the EU as their deficit, apparently, does not forfil the EU criteria and the EU don't want to encourage other independance claims in places like Spain/Catalonia. Also IF they gain indipendance AND get back into the EU, that would mean a hard border between Scotland and England, where most of their exports go.
As for the Scottish independance, 55% of scots did NOT vote for the SNP, instead voted for parties that didn't support another referendum, if they do get another referendum, which I can't see in this parliament, and win it, based on their current deficit they won't be allowed into the EU as their deficit, apparently, does not forfil the EU criteria and the EU don't want to encourage other independance claims in places like Spain/Catalonia. Also IF they gain indipendance AND get back into the EU, that would mean a hard border between Scotland and England, where most of their exports go.