What's new
By:

Light wiring

grog68

grog68

VIP Member
OK we wanted to replace our centre rose with spot lights in the back room, like idiots we thought we had remembered which wire went were, no surprise we didn't

The light is controlled by 2 light switches, one is a single gange switch, the other is a 3 gang switch, the other 2 switches contol kitchen and outside security light.

At the central rose there are three cables, two of which are twin + earch, ie blue,brown and earth, the third was three core, brown, grey and black, the grey and black both have brown sheeth.

We wired up as we thought was correct, but although the lights in the back room works fine, the outside security light is now always on, switching the switch makes no difference.

I thought the 2 twin + earth cables were part of the lighting circuit, but now thinking one is to feed the back room light and other is for the outside light. Would that be right?

I;m also now thinking the grey and black are switched lives, not sure we had a clue what they are.

After trial and error we managed to get the back room lights working using both the smart switch and wall switches (it was later we noticed the outside light wouldn't turn off)

we have used a terminal block to connect 3 browns together with a 4th coming from that terminal block to light fitting in back room (via smart switch)

we have the two blue connected to terminal block with 3rd going from that terminal block to light fitting in back room (via smart switch)

we have then connected the grey and black to the switch inputs of the smart switch.

Oviously we've gone wrong.

I am assuming we need to check the 3 gang switch and see if grey or black is connected to the switch for outside light and then connect it to ................ ? (answers on a postcard please)
 
I'd you haven't already do NOT touch the switch.
Why would you think the problem is at the switch when it was the rose you disconnected,?
It's seems you have mixed-up the two sleeved browns,
One is a permanent live, the other the switched live to light, swap them round, see if that works.

Edit : I've read it again, i think you have a two way loop at the rose, 3 core brown is probably switch wire, and sleeved browns connect to each individual brown, it will matter which one goes to which brown, try each one and see what works.
 
steptoe said:
I'd you haven't already do NOT touch the switch.
Why would you think the problem is at the switch when it was the rose you disconnected,?
It's seems you have mixed-up the two sleeved browns,
One is a permanent live, the other the switched live to light, swap them round, see if that works.

Edit : I've read it again, i think you have a two way loop at the rose, 3 core brown is probably switch wire, and sleeved browns connect to each individual brown, it will matter which one goes to which brown, try each one and see what works.
Click to expand...
I realise it's not the switch on the wall that's at fault but I had put a small smart switch box in to feed to the spots but to save confusion I am going to take that out, If I hadn't used that smart switch in first I could have left the rose plate on ceiling and just connected spots to that and all would be good. Me and my stupid idea's lol

You say the 3 core browns sleaved go to each of the browns, so one sleeved gow to the brown on one twin and earth, the other sleaved goes to brown on other twin and earth and the third brown goes to light?
 
grog68 said:
You say the 3 core browns sleaved go to each of the browns, so one sleeved gow to the brown on one twin and earth, the other sleaved goes to brown on other twin and earth and the third brown goes to light?
Click to expand...
Most likely, but without actually seeing it it's hard to tell,
On the single switch can you upload a picture of the wire connections,?
Also the same with the other switch that controls that light.
 
Single switch:

Top is marked COM and has normal Brown core

Bottom are marked 1 way and 2 way, the 1 way has grey with brown sheeth, 2 way has black with brown sheeth

1669218331632.png

3 gang switch:

1669219182264.png


looking at the back as above, the left is for backroom light, middle is for outdoor light that is now powered constantly, right is kitchen which works fine, there is another switch for the kitchen at the other end if that makes a difference to what you are looking at.

If I have to call a sparky out I will but seems too small a job for a sparky.
 
grog68 said:
Single switch:

Top is marked COM and has normal Brown core

Bottom are marked 1 way and 2 way, the 1 way has grey with brown sheeth, 2 way has black with brown sheeth

View attachment 84644

3 gang switch:

View attachment 84645


looking at the back as above, the left is for backroom light, middle is for outdoor light that is now powered constantly, right is kitchen which works fine, there is another switch for the kitchen at the other end if that makes a difference to what you are looking at.

If I have to call a sparky out I will but seems too small a job for a sparky.
Click to expand...
Is that another 3core at the LH switch as well,?
Have you a 3rd switch for this light somewhere,?
Id guess at splitting the black and grey to each one of the browns in the T&Es , deffo looks like 2way looped at rose, and a common live picked up from the 3gang switch,
 
steptoe said:
Is that another 3core at the LH switch as well,?
Have you a 3rd switch for this light somewhere,?
Id guess at splitting the black and grey to each one of the browns in the T&Es , deffo looks like 2way looped at rose, and a common live picked up from the 3gang switch,
Click to expand...
Kitchen has 2 switches, one on this 3 gang and one on another 3 gang at other end of kitchen

Back room, where this ceiling rose is, has the 2 switches, the 3 gang and the single gang photo's above

Outside lite just has the one switch on the 3 gang
 
And the moral of the story @grog68 always take pictures before disassembling things like i did NOT 😂😂😂 i had a right job trying to wire a new ceiling fan directional switch simply on the fact i thought the new switch would have the same coloured wires as mine but boy was i wrong 🤡🤡🤡 i must have swapped the wires round a thousand times till i sussed it out eventually and lesson learned 😂😂😂
 
rs500nutter said:
And the moral of the story @grog68 always take pictures before disassembling things like i did NOT 😂😂😂 i had a right job trying to wire a new ceiling fan directional switch simply on the fact i thought the new switch would have the same coloured wires as mine but boy was i wrong 🤡🤡🤡 i must have swapped the wires round a thousand times till i sussed it out eventually and lesson learned 😂😂😂
Click to expand...
Not like you have to go looking for a camera these days.
 
@grog68
Is that another 3core at the LH switch as well,?

If it is then there is a joint somewhere,
I'd still guess at my previous, split the two browns across the black and grey.
 
rs500nutter said:
And the moral of the story @grog68 always take pictures before disassembling things like i did NOT 😂😂😂 i had a right job trying to wire a new ceiling fan directional switch simply on the fact i thought the new switch would have the same coloured wires as mine but boy was i wrong 🤡🤡🤡 i must have swapped the wires round a thousand times till i sussed it out eventually and lesson learned 😂😂😂
Click to expand...
I normally do, don't know why we didn't this time, oh yes I do, we were idiots

steptoe said:
@grog68
Is that another 3core at the LH switch as well,?

If it is then there is a joint somewhere,
I'd still guess at my previous, split the two browns across the black and grey.
Click to expand...


@steptoe it was difficult to see to be honest because there was not much cable so couldn't pull switch away to have a propper look, I will take a look tomorrow hopefully

I will take a look at the light fitting again, So one brown (in twin & Eartch) to grey , other brown (in twin & Eartch) to black and then I assume then the brown in the 3 core goes to light fitting?

I may not get chance before the weekend now but will report back as soon as I've played

Thanks for your help
 
grog68 said:
I normally do, don't know why we didn't this time, oh yes I do, we were idiots




@steptoe it was difficult to see to be honest because there was not much cable so couldn't pull switch away to have a propper look, I will take a look tomorrow hopefully

I will take a look at the light fitting again, So one brown (in twin & Eartch) to grey , other brown (in twin & Eartch) to black and then I assume then the brown in the 3 core goes to light fitting?

I may not get chance before the weekend now but will report back as soon as I've played

Thanks for your help
Click to expand...
Yep, that's most probable,
Just check the cables going to terminals if black and grey sleeved brown, that what it looks like in pic,
TBH , it's a 10 min job with a bit of test gear and knowledge, but probably £50-60+ at an honest price.
Remember, you're not paying for the time at your house, you're paying for the years of knowledge.
 
steptoe said:
Yep, that's most probable,
Just check the cables going to terminals if black and grey sleeved brown, that what it looks like in pic,
TBH , it's a 10 min job with a bit of test gear and knowledge, but probably £50-60+ at an honest price.
Remember, you're not paying for the time at your house, you're paying for the years of knowledge.
Click to expand...
I have no problem paying for a sparky, just wasn't sure if they would come for such a small job. But I've not had issues changing lights in the past so thought it would be a 10 minute job myself, if what you suggests then will get a sparky in.
 
A simple switch cable normally brings the live from ceiling rose on the brown cable, it sends it back on the other cable which has a sleeve to indicate it is a live wire.

Those lines making a "V" separate the switches, there is a cable bridging those two circuits, possibly why it is on constantly. The bottom part of middle switch is not clear enough to show whether there is a cable to the common terminal . I am guessing that the outside light does not have a ceiling rose/junction box. A live has been borrowed at the switch and sent to the light. The neutral cable is joined elsewhere. if you isolate electrics undo the switch while labelling the wires and show the pictures, then that may shed light on the issue.
 
Abu Baniaz said:
A simple switch cable normally brings the live from ceiling rose on the brown cable, it sends it back on the other cable which has a sleeve to indicate it is a live wire.

Those lines making a "V" separate the switches, there is a cable bridging those two circuits, possibly why it is on constantly. The bottom part of middle switch is not clear enough to show whether there is a cable to the common terminal . I am guessing that the outside light does not have a ceiling rose/junction box. A live has been borrowed at the switch and sent to the light. The neutral cable is joined elsewhere. if you isolate electrics undo the switch while labelling the wires and show the pictures, then that may shed light on the issue.
Click to expand...
Do NOT undo the switch,
He hasn't changed the wiring at the switch, and it worked before, so why would the switch wiring be wrong,?
A LIVE hasn't been borrowed, that's standard practice for lights on the same circuit.
This is not wired conventionally,.

@grog68
Try as I suggested and split the two sleeved browns across the T&Es
 
steptoe said:
clDo NOT undo the switch,
He hasn't changed the wiring at the switch, and it worked before, so why would the switch wiring be wrong,?
A LIVE hasn't been borrowed, that's standard practice for lights on the same circuit.
This is not wired conventionally,.

@grog68
Try as I suggested and split the two sleeved browns across the T&Es
Click to expand...
no I am not going to touch the switch, just the light fitting, it may not be today as I have things on so may be a day or two, as I want to do it at a time where I am not in a rush
 
grog68 said:
no I am not going to touch the switch, just the light fitting, it may not be today as I have things on so may be a day or two, as I want to do it at a time where I am not in a rush
Click to expand...
FWIW
I think this is the last light in the circuit, and it was previously one way (switched from one position) and someone has made it into a 2way ( switched from 2 positions)
 
steptoe said:
FWIW
I think this is the last light in the circuit, and it was previously one way (switched from one position) and someone has made it into a 2way ( switched from 2 positions)
Click to expand...
it could well be, the kitchen is on different circuit. on my fuse box I have lights (which is kitchen, downstairs loo, and bedroom above) which was wired when we moved in as kitchen had no sockets, then we had rest of house 'rewired' a couple of years later, and they added 'downstairs lights' (basically, front room, back room, and outside light) and 'upstairs lights' (bedrooms and landing), have same for sockets.

This was about 15 years ago.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top