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General Election 2017 poll/Discussion

Who should win the General election?

  • Conservative

    Votes: 34 35.1%
  • Labour

    Votes: 51 52.6%
  • Lib Dems

    Votes: 2 2.1%
  • Ukip

    Votes: 4 4.1%
  • Greens

    Votes: 3 3.1%
  • SNP

    Votes: 3 3.1%

  • Total voters
    97
  • Poll closed .
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Steve Bruce

Registered
Corbyn would have this country bankrupt in no time. His politics is fantasy politics that would endanger all our livelihoods, schools, health, pensions etc

I have to admit if I lived in England (you think your politicians are bad, try having Northern Irelands) I would be a Tory voter, but this current Labour leader is by the worst thing to happen to this country if he was ever elected prime minister.

The Tories are far from perfect certainly, but Corbyn IMO would be worse than Trump is for America
 

Steve Bruce

Registered
How would his politics endanger our schools and health?

Genuinely interested to hear the reasons why you think Corbyn being PM would be the worst thing. Permission to rant
Corbyns ideas are to plough billions upon billions into the health service, the education services, benefits etc which all sounds fantastic, but this is money that the country just doesn't have.

His idea is to tax big business to the hilt, whilst in theory that sounds great but in reality this is a disaster because what big business would do is up sticks and leave to another country with more favourable taxation. The end result to this would be millions of people out of jobs, our best and most talented people leaving for countries like Australia and the rest of us struggling with a country plummeting into financial depths never seen before.

In the short term, The health service and education service will get a massive boost with more money than ever, which sounds great, but once the reality of economics hits the labour government they will see that they have to pull it back, but IMO I don't think Corbyn will, he will up our taxes further to try and cover the massive hole he has created and then once that doesn't work, the country will be in financial disrepair and then Labour would be ousted in the next election for a tory government to then try and fix the books again. Given up even worse austerity than ever.

If you look through history, when Labour where in government before thatcher, the unions held the country to ransom, their where strikes every other day, rubbish piled up in the streets and the economy was in the gutter. Thatcher came in and took control of that. Whether you agree with the way it was done, that is another debate. Fast forward to when John Major last the election to Tony Blair, Ken Clarke handed over the healthiest books ever to a new government in which the Labour chancellor Brown adopted Clarkes budget for the first year of New Labour government.

Now with Brown in charge of the purse, he sold the gold when the country didn't need to when the gold was at an all time low (or at least very near it) and then he raided our bulging pension pot as well to fund different projects and to give out willy nilly benefits to all and sundry. Meanwhile fast forward a lot of years and we go through a bad recession (albeit it was a global recession) and how good would it have been if we had of had our big pension pot and all our gold to which we could have cushioned the global recession a lot better. (thanks to Brown raiding the pension pot, that's why we have to work until we are 67 and probably longer, I'm only 31, so goodness knows when I'll ever get to retire)

So after our country had a huge deficit, what was the Labour idea to get out of it? Borrow even more money. Thankfully the British people had more sense and voted Labour out and the coalition came it and started to strip back unnecessary costs and cut back the benefits. The Tories then got an overall majority and continued to fix the economy. Unfortunately their has to be losers in this and while I do feel for those affected, unfortunately that is the price to pay for bad handling by the labour government. Although the Tories get the label as the big bad wolf because it's them having to do the cuts.

That's how I see it anyway, I'm sure many will disagree
 

kegnkiwi

TK Veteran
Heard a great one today, after the last election when labour brought out all those £3.00 labour memberships and they claimed the had a mass take up of new members. Well a great number of those where tory and lib dem supporters because they knew they could get corbyn voted in as the leader but he had not real chance of becoming primeminister. Due to labours policy of its member choosing who is the leader they cannot get shut of him. Conservatives laughting all the way...
 

SimonDiamond

Registered
I'll leave the thatcher, brown and gold stuff aside as that's a whole different story as you say.

Big business will pull out is the natural argument until you look at the numbers:

https://twitter.com/laboureoin/status/864424266376327169

You talk about Corbyn causing even greater damage but it seems that you have overlooked what the tories have done over the past 8 years. Hasn't borrowing trippled (don't quote me)? Hasn't the deficit increased greatly? Where has that money gone, the NHS? Schools? Nope!

Labour have costed out their plans and the tories haven't torn them to shreds just yet, so I take that as a positive. Although I do think Corbyn has over promised and will under deliver but I would rather achieve some of these things than none.

I haven't spoke to a single person who wants to see the NHS privatised, it's happening as we speak. Do you agree that 4 more years of Tory rule will be the start of the further decline of Britans greatest asset?
 

kegnkiwi

TK Veteran
Corbyn has not costed everything out, there was no mention of any cost related to bringing the water, untilities and post office back under the government controle. As someone in their 40's i have seen time after time labour spend what they don't have and the tories always have to mop up the mess.
 

Steve Bruce

Registered
I'll leave the thatcher, brown and gold stuff aside as that's a whole different story as you say.

Big business will pull out is the natural argument until you look at the numbers:

https://twitter.com/laboureoin/status/864424266376327169

You talk about Corbyn causing even greater damage but it seems that you have overlooked what the tories have done over the past 8 years. Hasn't borrowing trippled (don't quote me)? Hasn't the deficit increased greatly? Where has that money gone, the NHS? Schools? Nope!

Labour have costed out their plans and the tories haven't torn them to shreds just yet, so I take that as a positive. Although I do think Corbyn has over promised and will under deliver but I would rather achieve some of these things than none.

I haven't spoke to a single person who wants to see the NHS privatised, it's happening as we speak. Do you agree that 4 more years of Tory rule will be the start of the further decline of Britans greatest asset?

I'm sorry I don't think party twitter feeds are a great source regardless of which party as they are full of spin. But I'm happy to leave it as it sits and people can come to their own conclusions with that.

But lets talk about the borrowing, The borrowing has reduced by almost 3/4s http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39897498 You will also see a massive decrease in the deficit by nearly £100b from when Labour where ousted (same article). So yes the Tories plan is working albeit not quite as fast as Osborne first thought.

The NHS is vital to all and I do think reform is needed because as it is now, it is not a viable concern in the medium or long term. But lets not kid ourselves here, the NHS has been on life support long before the Tories came back into power.

Incidentally I think some things can be done to help raise money for it. For instance a 3 strike and you pay rule over 2 years for those who are taking up precious resources in A&E on a Friday and Saturday night over indulging in alcohol and frequently needing medical attention as a result of it. Maybe a £70 fine, not too much that no one can afford it but enough to maybe make some people think about the consequences of getting themselves into such a state they need medical attention. (just an idea off the top of my head)

Corbyn/labour is not a great idea at the moment for our country
 

SimonDiamond

Registered
How about this one from Gov.uk. These are facts.
https://assets.publishing.service.g.../image_data/file/50814/Chart_1.11_960x640.jpg

You're right, I was way off on the money. Not sure why I had those numbers in my head.

The NHS has been struggling for a while and even under Labour it needed a huge overhaul. There can be no question that the tories are now intentionally under funding it and moving the goal posts so that bigger and bigger chunks can be sold of to Virgin Care and other multi-nationals. History clearly shows that this is a major principle at the heart of tory rule, SELL SELL SELL.

I don't think your ideas are unreasonable, personally I would happily pay those charges but not when things like this are still happening and huge amounts of tax money is being given away in shady sweetheart deals.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/mar/21/ow-lucrative--deals-go-to-firms-that-use-tax-havens
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...d-social-care-nhs-privatisation-a7411386.html
 

fxsniper

Registered
Simon's first post on history hit the nail on the head. Essential Labour are heavily spending governments if given the chance. Conservatives are pretty much always the party that deals with the harsher times as a result. I'd vote for anyone who made sense but there is only one choice at the moment unfortunately. Like it or loathe it, this is the most important decision election wise for a long time. Conservatives are the only party that have said right we will do brexit and fight hard for you. All other parties have said in a nutshell they will mess about. Labour after weeks on end finally decided they they'd have to say they'd take it forward. Doesn't send the right message IMO. No party bar ukip fully wanted brexit so it's something the winning party will have to deal with.

Now because of brexit the Country needs to be really clever in terms of the economy. Currently the economy is smashing it out of the park given the referendum result. The economic indicators have been truly amazing. That's not to say brexit was goo/bad as a fair portion of this data is down to currency devaluation.

Economy is King. Nothing trumps the economy nothing ever will. The only new money in the country, bar investment, is from the business economy, the rest is recycled. You either a) encourage as much business as possible or b) borrow. I know which I would prefer. No one likes corporations, I hate them. But the fact of the matter is they make it all work. We are going to be leaving the EU and will need every bit of economic help we can get. Increasing corporation tax is literally the worst thing that could happen. Week before last, OBR figures came out for tax received. It showed that a 1% drop in corporation tax actually made the government an extra 21%. These are cast in stone facts. I'm not saying we should have super low tax as lat some % it wont work. But it is nalied on if they go up dramatically then the economy will suffer and then we all suffer.

For the last 7 years all we have heard pretty much every week has been the fact that this government is taken the countries debt to record levels. No one seem to wanted to point out that had Labour been in charge it would've been worse. Sure enough election is called and there it is clear as day. Doubling the deficit straight away and therefore increasing the debt at a faster rate. People also fail to mention that fastest the debt has every risen in recent decades was the last 2 years of the last Labour government. We have been through 7 years of awful cuts, it would be pretty moronic to just throw that away at the last hurdle. I spent 10's of millions of government money in my last job. Had to let many people go. It was an awful time but need to happen unfortunately.

The only real way I see of funding what needs to be funded is a rise in income tax across the board. Lib Dems were on the right lines but they're not backing brexit so have zero chance. It's cat and mouse between Conservatives and Labour on the income tax front. Both of them should agree that they need to go up. Labour also needs to look at their strategy. You can't just automatically hammer Conservatives just because it's them. People like me just see through their contradictions. As an example conservatives are talking about pensioers welfare and making pensioners pay more and means testing the winter fuel allowance. Yet labour are condemning this saying it's an outrage. I'm pretty certain I'm not the only one thinking that this is a tax on the rich which is what labour are campaigning for.

Despite all that I've said I do like Corbyn. There's no doubting he's about as honest and trustworthy as politicians go. However the party as a whole should be ashamed. It wasn't that long ago that they continuously tried to get him out. Awful behavior if you ask me. And now the party are saying vote for us we are cohesive. Most of my friends are labour, most of the likable people in this world are labour but for me it's all about the numbers and making sensible choices. This election is not the time to be messing about. In 5 years time the landscape will be different. Maybe at that point a labour government could thrive. If that happens it would be nice for Corbyn to be there.
 

SkipDonoghue

Registered
Anyone who wants a government with Dianne Abbott in it is bat shot crazy....just like her....as has been said above very well by @Steve Bruce and others....Labour can't be a serious option due to the vast amount of borrowing needed to facilitate their manifesto....I've voted Labour all my life and if 10 years ago someone said by the time your 45 you will vote Conservative I would have asked for some of what they're on....but I will be voting Tory as it's the only viable option for me at this present time....when I've listened to Corbyn and his band of merry men and women they just don't seem to have a clue which doesn't bold well if your wanting to run the country
 

No1uKnOw

Registered
Can you not regurgitate what you read in the mainstream media please.

Thanks in advance.
i am 39 years old an ex serving soilder,
i have a brain,my family as always been labour that don't change the fact he refuses to condem them killing women and children,also he as always reminded me as a old soviet plant from the 70's, also the shadow cabinet is a set off loosers. couldn't run a piss up in a brewery.

Also i dont blame labour for the finacial crisis,
But gordon brown selling all that gold a set price was stupid,even more stupis was him letting everybody know ages before the day he was gonna dump it all on the market.
 

binners

Registered
i am 39 years old an ex serving soilder,
i have a brain,my family as always been labour that don't change the fact he refuses to condem them killing women and children,also he as always reminded me as a old soviet plant from the 70's, also the shadow cabinet is a set off loosers. couldn't run a piss up in a brewery.

You sound like a very angry man. A man who is angry at the system he has been brought up in. A man so angry by that system that he distrusts any other system anyway. A man who'll just do as he's told regardless.
 
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