Council of Europe: No compulsory vaccinations and no discrimination against the unvaccinated

[wheelo]

Vaccine certificate/passport will be the norm in social places and holidays going forward.

Cant see any other way without these measures to stop potentially another rise in cases.

If you've had the vaccine, you cant catch it, so you cannot give it to other like minded people who have taken the vaccine, so where is the problem?
If 20 unvaccinated people come into a bar already full with vaccinated patrons - what is the problem?

Your only problem arises if the majority dont take it, then they spread it amongst themselves if one or more has it. The fact of the matter is most people in most countries are accepting (or have stated that that would be their preference) so why discriminate against the hard of thinking?

 

[Entropy]

If you've had the vaccine, you cant catch it, so you cannot give it to other like minded people who have taken the vaccine, so where is the problem?
If 20 unvaccinated people come into a bar already full with vaccinated patrons - what is the problem?

Your only problem arises if the majority dont take it, then they spread it amongst themselves if one or more has it. The fact of the matter is most people in most countries are accepting (or have stated that that would be their preference) so why discriminate against the hard of thinking?

Hainvg the vaccine means you have protection against the virus. It doesnt mean you cant catch it.

 

[HiTecK]

Hainvg the vaccine means you have protection against the virus. It doesnt mean you cant catch it.

So if "you have protection against the virus", his point still stand.

This is what the vaccine does..

So all the vaccine does is stop it from making you seriously ill.
It will also likely stop people that have been vaccinated, knowing they have Covid so a "Super spreader" so to speak.

So you've had you vaccine and you can still catch/spread it whilst inside a pub with your shiny new "passport"..

What's the difference then between you that's vaccinated and Joe blogs that isn't?

This is my issue with passports. They don't make sense and people calling for others to be forced into it or have their rights striped away is just plain wrong..

It will lead to far more deaths than what Covid will cause long term.

 

[Entropy]

What's the difference then between you that's vaccinated and Joe blogs that isn't?

The difference is your body will have a faster immune response. You will be carrying the virus for less time and it wont be able to replicate as effectively. Therefore you wont be as effective at spreading it as you would have been without the vaccine.

My issue with anti "passport" people is that you seem to want to have the choice to not be vaccinated. But at the same time you want other people to not have the choice to deal with who they choose. Which is selfish, entitled and borderline retarded if you think about it from any kind of logical perspective.

 

[HiTecK]

You will be carrying the virus for less time

Not seen any info that suggests you carry it for less amount of time after the vaccine but it's early days. Nonetheless you can still pass it on to another person even with your passport.

My issue with anti "passport" people is that you seem to want to have the choice to not be vaccinated. But at the same time you want other people to not have the choice to deal with who they choose. Which is selfish, entitled and borderline retarded if you think about it from any kind of logical perspective.

First of all I'm not an anti vaxxer. I will be having the vaccine when it's my turn...
But my issue with people like you is that you come out with sentences like...

you seem to want to have the choice to not be vaccinated.

Do you not realise that sentence in itself is ridiculous. EVERYONE has a choice what they put in their own bodies. There's no middle ground on this.. to take away someone's freedoms because they think differently to you, especially after you've had the vaccine and are safe from COVID you think you have a right to dictate to people what they should do..

There's several Countries not having vaccine passports like this. I expect you won't be visiting any from here on and you'll want our borders closed to all of those visitors?
There's several religious/cultural reasons that people are against vaccinations. I expect you will want those people to leave this Country too?

You've had the vaccine like myself (soon) so you're safe. Don't alienate others and call for their human rights to be taken away just because YOU are fine with the vaccine.

 

[Entropy]

Dude i 100% agree with your right to choose what to put in your body. I also 100% agree with someone elses right to choose to not deal with someone who chose to not have a vaccine. Thats the point i was trying to get across. Whatever else you took from it might have been you projecting.

 

[grog68]

OK so we know having a vaccine does not protect you 100% from catching it, but it reduces the severity of it, they still don't know if having the vaccine will stop you from spreading it, some believe it will others believe it wont.

Vaccine pasports will come they have to, many countries are already saying they will let people in if they can prove they have been vaccinated, recently had covid or have had a negative test. If you can't prove any of them then you can not visit. Now personally, i would rather have a document proving I have been vaccinated when I travel abroad, rather than have to pay £200 every time I travel for a test. It won't be the UK governemt saying you have to have one to travel, it will be the government of the country you want to travel to saying you must.

I am sure the same will be introduced over here in some form, if I go into a pub full of vaccinated people, if I have it and pass it on, no one is going to become seriously ill from it, if I go into a pub full of non vaccinated people, then there is a good chance someone will end up hospitalised from it, along with others whom they have mixed with beefore showing symptoms.

The whole point is to reduce the impact on countries health systems, the less chance of people becoming seriously ill then the more chance of us getting to a near normal. Increase the risks then the longer the restrictions will be in place/keep returning.

As for 'hoarding' etc, first of the UK is one of the biggest contributers to COVAX (or whatever its called) who are meant to be distributing the vaccine to countries in a fair manner. I do think the EU are worse than anyone at the moment, ordering the vaccines later than they should, sulking when they didn't get vaccines when they wanted, well order early and you might have got them, they then tell their population Astra Zenica is not safe for older people, against the advice of their own medica experts, then they block exports of astra zenica to Australia, and threatening to block to other countries, because their own stocks are low so think they should keep it, then again say it's not safe even though their experts say it is, eventually admitting it's safe until another u turn in Germany who say only over 60's (yes the group they said shouldn't have it a month or so ago) should have it because 0.0001% risk of getting a blood clot is to high for the younger population, again even though there has been no evidence yet that the two are connected. And they wonder why there is a low uptake of the vaccine in the EU, where is all their vaccine going with a low uptake? If they don't want it then send it to parts of the world that do. OH and guess where the Pfizer vaccine was developped, the EU and they haven't said a thing against that one, strange.

 

[pabloescaban]

If you've had the vaccine, you cant catch it, so you cannot give it to other like minded people who have taken the vaccine, so where is the problem?
If 20 unvaccinated people come into a bar already full with vaccinated patrons - what is the problem?

Your only problem arises if the majority dont take it, then they spread it amongst themselves if one or more has it. The fact of the matter is most people in most countries are accepting (or have stated that that would be their preference) so why discriminate against the hard of thinking?

It doesn't take a majority to be unvaccinated.
Just about 30% unvaccinated means it can still (and will) spread freely.
Not a big problem for the vaccinated - right?
Wrong
All the time it's spreading, it's also mutating.

If it mutates to such an extent where the vaccinated are practically unprotected, then it all starts back from square one.

 

[dsayers2014]

Maybe we should be microchipped when we have had both vaccines?

That way a scanner will pickup the chip when going to Asda to do our weekly shop?

 

[channelking]

It doesn't take a majority to be unvaccinated.
Just about 30% unvaccinated means it can still (and will) spread freely.
Not a big problem for the vaccinated - right?
Wrong
All the time it's spreading, it's also mutating.

If it mutates to such an extent where the vaccinated are practically unprotected, then it all starts back from square one.

That 30% number accurate if those people fall in that bracket who are unvaccinated?

There will be a portion no doubt that just want take the vaccine and at the end of the day whether anyone will agree with it or not it is down to their own choice.

But what in terms of numbers of the population how much 30% could look like as that is a pretty high percentage that may not choose to get vaccinated.

You dont want endless cycles of lockdowns and restrictions happening as a result. Cant afford this year to fall into the same situation as last and not at least trying to move forward.

Maybe we should be microchipped when we have had both vaccines?

That way a scanner will pickup the chip when going to Asda to do our weekly shop?

They already monitor what people do every day so why not have a micro chip implanted lol

 

[dsayers2014]

They already monitor what people do every day so why not have a micro chip implanted lol

Yep dogs have to be chipped why not people? Lol

 

[pabloescaban]

That 30% number accurate if those people fall in that bracket who are unvaccinated?

There will be a portion no doubt that just want take the vaccine and at the end of the day whether anyone will agree with it or not it is down to their own choice.

But what in terms of numbers of the population how much 30% could look like as that is a pretty high percentage that may not choose to get vaccinated.

You dont want endless cycles of lockdowns and restrictions happening as a result. Cant afford this year to fall into the same situation as last and not at least trying to move forward.

Not entirely sure on the 30% figure, I'm quoting Prof Whitty who said that we need 80+% uptake over the entire population in order to gain herd immunity, but I can't remember if the 80% included those with antibodies from having the virus.
If 2 from 10 people have no protection it can't spread so quickly, sure people will get it but probably not pass it on.
If 3 from 10 have no protection this means almost a third of the population - 20 million can spread it to each other.
At each host it has the chance to mutate.
The viruses don't mutate very well in bats due to their high body temperature and they also live very long lives and have been around millions of years longer than us, so their systems are well prepared whereas ours aren't and the virus mutates easily and quickly.

*
Bats can live 30-40 years, eight times longer than other rodents of that size.
This is like us living 600 years

 

[jigger121]

Surely the problem arises by referring to it as a vaccine as it leads people to believe that it is basically a cure. If it was a true vaccine like small pox for example,i think alot more people would be willing to get it. Another problem is social media, there is so much fake news about that it's hard to tell what is real.
Personally I would not be getting it until at least another year or so, mainly down to the lack of data. And this is proven with the astrazeneca and the link to blood disease.
The vaccine passport will be ridiculous as where will it stop.

 

[channelking]

Surely the problem arises by referring to it as a vaccine as it leads people to believe that it is basically a cure. If it was a true vaccine like small pox for example,i think alot more people would be willing to get it. Another problem is social media, there is so much fake news about that it's hard to tell what is real.
Personally I would not be getting it until at least another year or so, mainly down to the lack of data. And this is proven with the astrazeneca and the link to blood disease.
The vaccine passport will be ridiculous as where will it stop.

Dont know if any vacccine for any type of disease/virus truly is a cure. As there is always a chance you could catch whatever virus/disease there is again even where the vaccine has been taken.

Do agree social media has to be "doctors" and "scientists" giving their own opinion and spreading more lies which are more harmful than stating facts. Social media generally find to be toxic dangerous place.

 

[pabloescaban]

Surely the problem arises by referring to it as a vaccine as it leads people to believe that it is basically a cure. If it was a true vaccine like small pox for example,i think alot more people would be willing to get it.

It is a true vaccine like smallpox?
Vaccines work by fooling the body into thinking it has the disease, thereby producing antibodies to fight it off.
That's what covid vaccine does.

Another problem is social media, there is so much fake news about that it's hard to tell what is real.

As a general rule, everything on social media is fake

Personally I would not be getting it until at least another year or so, mainly down to the lack of data. And this is proven with the astrazeneca and the link to blood disease.
The vaccine passport will be ridiculous as where will it stop.

Half the adult population has already had it.
Millions more in other countries have also had it.
Half a dozen got a blood clot.
That's less than normal amongst the population without a vaccine so you could say the vaccine protects against blood clots too

 

[grog68]

Maybe we should be microchipped when we have had both vaccines?

That way a scanner will pickup the chip when going to Asda to do our weekly shop?

According to social media, all of us that have had the vaccine have been micro chipped by Bill Gates lol

Personally I would not be getting it until at least another year or so, mainly down to the lack of data. And this is proven with the astrazeneca and the link to blood disease.

There has been no proven link, there have been something like 40 blood clot cases in Germany out of 3.8 million who had taken the Vaccine, a rate of 0.0001% and not proven to be linked to the vaccine, probably just Germany wanting to boost the use of the German developed Pfizer vaccine .

 

[jigger121]

Vaccines work by fooling the body into thinking it has the disease, thereby producing antibodies to fight it off.

If I'm correct you are referring to getting a small dose of it then your body reacts accordingly. But I'm pretty sure all these vaccines have stated they don't do this.

Half a dozen got a blood clot.

It's actually over 30 and there's talks that it could be down to it being injected wrongly. Instead of going into the muscle some have injected it into the blood stream which caused it.

But its such a hot topic right now and I don't think there is a right answer at the minute. At least we have a platform to discuss this (until the pubs open and everyone disappears lol)

 

[jigger121]

There has been no proven link, there have been something like 40 blood clot cases in Germany out of 3.8 million who had taken the Vaccine, a rate of 0.0001% and not proven to be linked to the vaccine, probably just Germany wanting to boost the use of the German developed Pfizer vaccine .

Good point. But its seeming like the scientific community are not at the forefront. Instead it's being made into a competition of who can do it better and make the most money. Hopefully doesn't turn our health care system into the likes of USA

 

[pabloescaban]

If I'm correct you are referring to getting a small dose of it then your body reacts accordingly. But I'm pretty sure all these vaccines have stated they don't do this.


It's actually over 30 and there's talks that it could be down to it being injected wrongly. Instead of going into the muscle some have injected it into the blood stream which caused it.

Back in the day, they would inject a tiny amount of the smallpox virus into people and that worked to give the body protection.
They used to use dead viruses too.
They don't even need to do that now.
They know that this virus relies on its shape to latch onto our cells.
This vaccine produces antibodies that prevent it latching on, if it can't attach itself properly it can't reproduce in the body

But its such a hot topic right now and I don't think there is a right answer at the minute. At least we have a platform to discuss this (until the pubs open and everyone disappears lol)

 

[jigger121]

This vaccine produces antibodies that prevent it latching on, if it can't attach itself properly it can't reproduce in the body

Basically like grease on a pole. If definitely get it if it was called a covid grease protection instead of a vaccine